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In 2016, @HillaryClinton@twitter.com lost. In 2020, @realDonaldTrump@twitter.com lost. Both blame grand illegal conspiracies instead of themselves, supported by propagandists & diehards. And it's proper to do the investigations etc. But please consider how silly this all looks to the rest of us. Thanks.

@wjmaggos True or not, irrespective of the outcome, one of these has affidavits, the other does not. Also, define "grand".

@Johnny_of_the_swamp

RussiaGate had indictments. Aren't Trump folks claiming some coordinated efforts between voting machine makers and Dem party officials/activists and poll watchers and maybe USPS workers? Like Hillary talking about Trump and Putin and Wikileaks etc?

@wjmaggos Indictments that are thin on evidence (because state secrets) that are against foreigners who are not expected to ever show for trial.

> Aren't Trump folks claiming some coordinated efforts between voting machine makers

Yes, this is being bandied about and the claims are the evidence is coming this week. If nothing materializes, it will be exactly the nothingburger described.

> poll watchers

This one is very real and not even remotely "grand".

@wjmaggos
- Machines not properly certified in accord with state law in AZ.
- Naked ballots in PA in conflict with state law.
- Officials doing ballot curing in PA but only in Dem districts (14th Amendment?)
- Republicans denied legal access.

I mean, the number of claims are much much higher and none of them require serious coordination, just a small number of people who are ideologically aligned.

@Johnny_of_the_swamp

Presidential elections are enormous decentralized affairs mostly run by volunteers. Finding a ton of examples of small problems scattered throughout the country means nothing. That the ones being talked about go against Trump in swing states is because while it happens everywhere every election, the angry media and activists are making these choices. Does any of this have the capacity to switch one state? From what I've seen, it's like spending a few $1k on Facebook ads.

@wjmaggos

> Does any of this have the capacity to switch one state?

Rudy G believes if successful it will chuck 100s of thousands of ballots in PA because they were not handled according to the law. So, yes, it could swing the election.

If it does, remains to be seen. Could be a lack of evidence, could be "corrupt judges", the framing of such a result will vary. The problem is really fundamentally in comparing something that is in the history books versus active court cases.

@wjmaggos To wit, you and I can argue all day over the claims amounting to a hill of beans but there are very real, distinct people in the world who will decide this over the next 6 weeks likely.

@wjmaggos @Johnny_of_the_swamp

I agree that they're grand claims, and the difference will be prompt delivery of strong evidence.

@moth

@Johnny_of_the_swamp

right. I guess we'll see but the left has been complaining about electronic voting machines for years. what I fear are the unfalsifiable claims that could cause people to give up on democracy for apathy or other means.

@wjmaggos @moth

People already have given up. If Biden emerges victorious we'll see if there's a serious bipartisan effort to build a national level bullet proof system for running elections with the intent of restoring faith in said system. My guess is, no.

@Johnny_of_the_swamp @wjmaggos @moth. I don't believe people have given up. If the fraud is not identified and taken care of now, there will never be confidence in any election again

@Secftblgirl @moth @wjmaggos

If the fraud suits fail to deliver, millions of people will feel the system is corrupt.

If the fraud suits DO deliver, millions will believe the system is corrupt.

I keep telling everyone, shit is gonna get real weird. My stockpiles were never meant to start depletion on election night, but January.

@Secftblgirl
@moth @Johnny_of_the_swamp

But isn't the problem both in having so few journalists that the vast majority trusts and people (especially those with big followings) making huge claims without evidence (at least so far)? You can & should explain problems you see but do so carefully & clearly. Everything in our culture argues for the opposite, except any understanding of what makes civil discourse sustainable.

@wjmaggos @moth @Johnny_of_the_swamp It really depends on what journalists you believe. The ones that report truth have explained the fraud and the ongoing lawsuits. The msm on the other hand, not so much. Then again they don't really report news, just their preferred *narrative* of the day

@Secftblgirl
@moth @Johnny_of_the_swamp

Nobody reports "truth". The best just do the work and are unafraid to piss off their own "tribe". I think Greenwald and Taibbi are great examples of that. Corporate journalists are generally untrustworthy because they have so many people to answer to. But many in the alternative media are playing to an audience too, and desperate to build a following who wants something they can use to attack the other side with, much more than they care if it's accurate.

@wjmaggos @moth @Johnny_of_the_swamp The alt-media do report facts on the ground. That is how they build a following, by being open and transparent regardless of which side it hurts/helps

@Secftblgirl
@moth @Johnny_of_the_swamp

I'm sure some do. But you have to understand that I laid out a much easier way to get money & attention than following the facts, which will inevitably piss off everybody.

@Johnny_of_the_swamp @wjmaggos @moth If Biden is allowed to steal the election, there will be no cooperation with Republicans. The Democrats will know they have a tiny window of opportunity to force their anti-white endgame via Executive fiat. Biden on day 1 will permanently halt construction of the border wall, amnesty every illegal in this country, and sign a massive assault weapons ban that renders the 2nd Amendment a dead letter. In the days following, there will be a national lockdown and Executive orders criminalizing “hate speech”. De-platformings will cascade like rainfall and online dissidents will be doxxed one by one and thrown into the gaping jaws of the legal system. Antifa and BLM will have the freedom to assault and even kill random whites in public with impunity. I would expect the beginnings of the white exodus from America to Eastern Europe to begin by the end of the year.

None of this has to come to pass however, if Trump and his supporters remain immovable. Whether they do so is the question.

@ThreeOneThreeChris
@moth @Johnny_of_the_swamp

If you're wrong, will you pin an apology to your profile for at least a couple months?

@moth @wjmaggos @Johnny_of_the_swamp @ThreeOneThreeChris But betting is always more fun with high stakes.

Whoever loses should have to post a dick pic through bread.

@moth

@Johnny_of_the_swamp @ThreeOneThreeChris

It's just the same point I've been making. People can say crazy shit and it's so much more fun than being reasonable, so unless there's any attempt to hold them accountable, everybody is going to live in their own bubbles and the work of holding society together won't get done. And then come the guns.

@wjmaggos @moth @Johnny_of_the_swamp There is a finite amount of difference that any society can tolerate before its cohesion reaches the point of failure. We’re at that point now.
@ThreeOneThreeChris @wjmaggos @Johnny_of_the_swamp @moth Sure, only if you believe that Biden broke Obama's records of voter turnout, and that 112% of a precinct's registered voters submitting ballots is fine.

I bet the number of actual mouth-breathing crazies creating discord is less than 6% of the popultion. Probably closer to 4%. It's eerily similar to hype campaigns for the new Terminator/Ghostbusters movies we were told were smash hits with the majority of moviegoers right up to the point they had to admit they weren't.

@ThreeOneThreeChris
@moth @Johnny_of_the_swamp

Too much difference in their shared understanding of reality, electoral power and culture is indeed intolerable. But they're all pretty gray areas. Other differences are probably ok until it leads to changes in these factors.

@wjmaggos @Johnny_of_the_swamp @ThreeOneThreeChris

I think the people who ate lockdown might have bled their hand that they don't got the stones. As far as the buzzfed, hysteria is embarrassing but it's not the end of the world.
@wjmaggos @moth @Johnny_of_the_swamp Wrong about how Biden would govern if he were to assume the presidency, or wrong that it will even get to that point?

@ThreeOneThreeChris
@moth @Johnny_of_the_swamp

First, you made the claim that Biden being the president would mean he stole it. Unfalsifiable but whatever. But you said Biden would do a number of things "day 1" and other stuff in the "days following". Other stuff after that, but let's stick with those. How about March 1st? Gives you both more than a month.

@wjmaggos @moth @Johnny_of_the_swamp You’re naïve. If Biden is illegitimately installed as POTUS, he will begin signing Executive legislation within 24 hours of being sworn in.

@ThreeOneThreeChris

@moth @Johnny_of_the_swamp

You were much more specific than that he'd be signing executive legislation. Permanent halt to border wall construction, amnesty for all illegals and effectively end of 2A on day 1. National lockdown and criminalizing "hate speech" soon thereafter.

@wjmaggos @moth @Johnny_of_the_swamp He will do every bit of that immediately, and said as much during the campaign. And he only be able to do it by Executive order anyway. Don’t forget that his old boss Obama once said something to the effect of “They have Congress, I have a pen.”
@wjmaggos @moth @Johnny_of_the_swamp I don’t pin posts unless it’s a highly coveted block notice that I received. But if I’m wrong I will admit. I’m never wrong though.
@wjmaggos @Johnny_of_the_swamp must be tough not being able to tell the difference between propaganda and reality
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