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59% voted to keep legal in conservative . That's quite a gap to rig. Americans often vote more progressive on issues than you'd expect. Voting for candidates gets more bogged down in tribal sympathies and the personal attacks that TV and social media do so well.

@wjmaggos Isn't this a blanket "you can't ban all abortion" thing?

The majority of Americans only support abortion up to 15 weeks...

@realcaseyrollins

I think that's correct but don't most conservatives want it illegal at conception?

@wjmaggos I think most do but maybe not all

Were they all #GOP voters who voted on this?

@realcaseyrollins @wjmaggos It was a horrible error to put the issue to the steaming masses for a vote. The Representatives washed their hands of it in Kansas, just like Pilot. But hey - if Kansas wants to be an immoral shithole, I'm all for letting States decide to do that themselves in whatever way they see fit.

@neanderthalsnavel @realcaseyrollins

if states can decide, why not towns? Or dare I say, mothers? Shouldn't you want international abortion cops and all women to have to take daily pregnancy tests?

@wjmaggos @realcaseyrollins I forgot to respond to this yesterday. Your response is a great example of the problem the nation faces. The left and right fundamentally disagree on when a human starts to exist. Problems can't be solved until facts are agreed upon. Both sides heads down paths with a different assumption made about this fundamental issue. For example: I believe at conception where due process under The Constitution would then kick in no matter the stage of development. You may not

@neanderthalsnavel @wjmaggos @realcaseyrollins It's no good. People who are spiritually blind will never understand the value of human life.

The fact that abortions are desired in the first place is the real problem.

This whole, "Well, *technically* it's not a human life so I can get rid of it!" mentality is the mind disease, not the disagreement about when it *technically* is or is not a human life.

You'll never convince someone who is willing to destroy a potential life for the sake of convenience that there is a point at which it's *not* okay to do that, because they have already crossed that point by virtue of being willing to destroy the potential life in the first place.

It is still worth fighting the good fight from the eternal perspective, but the leftists will get their baby-murdering utopia in the short term and take everyone else down with them. It's already happening, if one has eyes to see.

Then they will blame the white, conservative Christians when crime is rampant, there is no food, and families are a thing of the past.

@victor @neanderthalsnavel @realcaseyrollins

"baby-murdering utopia"

IRL people recognize that people disagree (mostly because of different information and life experiences) with each other and even have competing values in their own heads. we try to understand each other & work out compromises that work best for everybody. I completely accept that some beliefs make that impossible, but don't know what to do about that, beyond get less religious. otherwise, separation or war seems inevitable.

@neanderthalsnavel @realcaseyrollins

it's something we need to define legally, cause so much flows from there. this is really what freaks out feminists. if this is a separate life completely, who cares about rape or incest? who cares about what she wants to do like drink a soda or walk around the house, if we know that increases the odds of miscarriage? and why would we ever expect them to tell us they are pregnant if these limits would be immediately imposed? mandate daily pregnancy tests.

@realcaseyrollins

It was all voters but the state is pretty conservative. My understanding is that the law there is legal till 22 weeks with an exception for health afterwards. This vote was to amend their constitution with the understanding that to restrict abortion further would require that.

@wjmaggos Interesting. I'm not aware of polls about mainstream support at 22 weeks offhand, just that, last I heard, 15 weeks was the cutoff point. Maybe in some places they're okay with 22 weeks.

@wjmaggos Well I think it'd be best for national unity for states to figure out what they want, and syndicate their laws with each other. Then we can see how many states support which regulations and maybe ban abortions according to which sorts of rules have the most state support

@wjmaggos as a non-US person I'm still trying to understand the logic of banning #abortion.

If it's a pro-life stance, then the same States are also anti death penalty I take it?

Just seems odd in the land of the free, to actually remove a freedom of choice... By having kept abortion choices anyone could decide for themselves whether to have one or not.

@danie10

they generally are pro death penalty. it's usually about religion and looking at the situation from the point of view of the fetus. just as you can't murder innocent people, you shouldn't murder a fetus. but once you do something worthy of the death penalty, we can kill you. it's not a view I hold but I try to understand it. the idea that these same people think the government can't do anything right makes me wonder why they trust the government to decide guilt, but IDK.

There's something to be said for a good faith attempt to understand those you disagree with. At the very least it means you are actually disagreeing.

@wjmaggos yes the odd thing also being if it is a Christian religion, that "Let God Be the Judge" and "Turn the Other Cheek" etc are also religious approaches. Too often we've seen innocent people executed. Conditional pro-life is an interesting, but slipper slope as to who judges...

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